View their profile including current address, phone number 520-293-XXXX, background check reports, and property record on Whitepages, the most trusted online directory. She also underwent a gun residue test that same evening that revealed no trace of gun powder on her hands. All the reports and even the warden thought she was not a threat anymore. I was curious as to what these requirements were, as I have not seen these online. A trial should be based on facts and solid direct or circumstantial evidence. In fact, with her continuing to deny committing the crime or expressing remorse, she may never get out. ), years in solitary confinment Whats wrong with us?! I care about what was said at trial. The chief prosecutor adopting the children beggars belief! If thats what you want then dont pretend its anything but. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. But I am realistic. You make an interesting observation when you say: Anyways. Arizona; Tucson; Robert Arthur Knickerbocker; Robert Arthur Knickerbocker, Age 66. aka Robert C Knickerbocker, Robert a Knickerbocke. Downs tried to defend herself against the allegations and said, "Why would I have taken my kids to the hospital? Her trial was speculative and based on so many fallacies. Dianes automobile was secured and examined and no gun was found. And other inmates were released with worst backgrounds. He knows as he was in court and must have photos. Yes, Christie said she did not know who did it. Spending 35 years incarcerated with time in isolation and often as a target is not going to improve mental health. Considering that the marks on the lethal bullets did not fit the bullet fingerprinting found in the rifle, this gun switcheroo was a good save for the state, but did not support the theory presented at trial either. Diane was known for her love of all animals whichshe treated with great care, and for her independent and wild streak. Its a dangerous proposition when a lack of due process becomes acceptable because they know she is guilty. But to convince this young and vulnerable girl to turn on her mother, they needed to isolate her from her family and work relentlessly on her confession.. The fact that the children were in no way protected by Child Protection Services is undeniable. But showing no remorse is part of claiming her innocence and part of the vicious circle of parole hearings. Diane said that Cheryl was laying down on the front floorboard with the passenger seat pushed back. Results for this person or the person you are looking for are not guaranteed to appear in search results. Too bad it triggered you, maybe try to stay away from sites that might not go along with the mob mentality and usual media narrative. The US is a very strange bird when it comes to crime and punishment. I like the way you keep an open mind about Diane herself and what she may or may not have been going through mentally. No matter how horrible people think she is. When a white attractive woman like Diane Downs appears on the scene while displaying seemingly unpleasant characteristics as a mother and a personality disorder, there is no telling what the media will do with the story. Nobody knows but her. 2. According to Rule and the court, the unicorn was a memorial to her children that she purchased after premeditating their murder. Do you remember a couple of days after that, December So move on. The best poems for funerals, memorial services., and cards. Legally speaking, we do not go after people because they look evil or crazy. Andthe DA adopted her other two children. Leaving out a lot of info that should be included and presenting a very one sided take on these things. you quoted what diane said as to what happened When she resisted, he shot her kids and struggled with her. I think it posible she brought the kids there to be shot by someone else. N u pleaded guilty of murdering ur husband. The timing of her arrival at the hospital should have been discussed and explained in more details. Leslie Van Houten is an example of a woman who probably will never see the light of day because of her high profile status. 1st, you came back from a trip? The powers that be knew they had nothing on Diane so Christie became their sacrificial lamb. It opened a huge can of worms regarding the real identity of the heart full of lies in this case. It will not make me popular, but I dont mind. The answers to those questions do not matter anymore. Everything matters in a trial and investigation. Robert Lee Knickerbocker . It was far fetched, unfoundedand convenientlyrelayedby Rule to boost the sales of her book. The implication was not only cruel, in the light of what Diane was suffering, it was also clear. Go to the hate groups for that. He actually was the one who suggested they become intimate after many friendly, platonic conversations. I read the letter they sent to the Downs when they were fighting to see their grandchildren. It deserved as much attention as a Unicorn, a song or all the other hearsay floating around because at least, they came from real people signing official documents. Instead, it is Diane who fought to keep her children. I can only imagine to absolute horror of Leno and Rosemary LaBianca during their horrific murders. The circumstances surrounding the case were not enough to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. She signed an affidavit to that effect and wanted the jury informed of it but it was never done. At first I thought she did it, now I made further research and I dont know what to think. This case flew under my radar so to speak because it happened before my time. Diane was found guilty and sentenced to life and she has been in prison ever since. Id like to challenge some of the bloggers claims. She repeated it years later at school. I followed the trial. I will agree that it was suspicious that Diane got away with one bullet in the arm, even if the injury was severe, but she was outside the car and many scenarios are possible to that effect. The underlying basis of this article. It seems that a lot of what was written down never came up during testimony and some nurses even strayed from the original content. Was that Annes fault as well? Downs herself had been shot in the forearm during what she claimed was a struggle with the mysterious stranger. The notes taken daily by the nurses became a point of contention at trial. It wasnt until Prosecutor Hugi said Dr. Jamison had labeled Diane a deviant sociopath that Mr. Wasnt it speculative on their part? They hardly investigated any other lead after a couple of weeks. It was not the right gun. Surprisingly, he accepted the new child and learned to love him dearly. It is normally done (in fact in many jurisdictions, can ONLY be done) by going through the process in a different state or county then the one the applicant works with. (Yes, speculative). They have also lived in Watertown, NY and Scottsdale, AZ. What about the judge stopping a defendant from getting a new attorney? A second child, Cheryl, quickly followed in January 1976. Wow does he ever look different than how they portrayed him in the TV movie. For all my life I have thought I was not that smart, but now I can tell myself, hey cheer up could be worse. Diane and her family fought for them but were blocked from day one. What this is evidence of is one more piece of the overwhelming amount of bias that was involved from the start of the case. She threw her keys yet was able to take off right away?? It was Judge Footes first criminal case and it was against a woman whose children he had removed from her care even though she had not been convicted or sentenced; a conflict of interest and pure madness. So when Dr. George Suckow from the Oregon State Hospital in Salem was called as a States rebuttal witness and he made a professional diagnosis of Diane as histrionics, antisocial and narcissistic, he openly said in court that he interviewed Diane for 1 hour and read evidence presented by the state to make his diagnosis. . You say she made more of a fuss about her arm than about the injuries her children sustained. Thanks again for bringing this to my attention. She functions best in highly structured environments where she has a sense of control. The character of the accused is not the main ingredient, especially that in this case, there was a lot of bashing going on in the media and in court. You can click here to read about the case of Alice Crimmins during which the lead detective was heard telling the other cops before the bodies of the children were ever found:You take the husband, Ill take the bitch.. It means you dont orphan the kids. Do you REALLY believe she expected them to live especially since she drove at less than 10 mph. While I appreciate your empathy for the victims of this crime, I have to wonder if all murderers should be locked up their entire life? If the adult can show capacity and willingness to provide care, love and nurturing to the children, then there is no legal reason to prevent them from becoming Foster Carers. What they did to her daughter is unconscionable. 4. I am not saying that Diane was a saint or Ann Rule a demon. Judges are subject to certain ethical standards and have a duty to be impartial. That they did not test the outside of the car? Smith will face charges for allegedly killing her husband, Antione Smith. Downs is a worthless as the day is long.. Maybe you should read the blog before commenting. Why doesnt the innocent project get involved with her case. Is it just to continue to punish her so long after she is obviously no longer a danger in any way to anyone? While not evidence of guilt or innocence, it is certainly worth noting as part of the overall wrongs perpetrated during this fiasco of a trial and subsequent appeals. You wondered at times, which side he was working for. I watched the paroles hearing in 08, was lucky to find it, it was streamed live at the timemy sister, who is a whiz with computers, found it for me. I know several people who know or knew both of the surviving children as well as Diane. He hired Jim Jagger on the 1st of June 1983, 11 days after the shooting. He could not during the marriage so he walked away. I do not discuss her guilt or innocence because this is not what the blog is about, but I personally hope she is released one day. She may be highly vulnerable to losing control of her emotions in emotionally charged situations, creating faulty judgment and ineffective and inappropriate behavior. I hope she is granted parole. Are you still taking comments by email? They were in their care during the time Diane worked when she moved to Oregon. My website is in the process of being migrated so it has no photos. And how the letters became so bizarre, paranoid and psychotic that she told Diane to stop writing her. ), Interesting suggestion. Page 26 of Case History. Instead of grieving, Alice went partying and had sex. In fact, if appropriate family is found, termination is not required. Read more: ABC News, ABC News (2), Salem News, Salem News (2), Oregon Live, The Washington Post, Murderpedia, Find Law. He further added that he was relieved when she was transferred to Oregon because he could then successfully reconcile with his wife. And I care about the lack of evidence. Five doctors have observed and documented this phenomenon. The fact that the Hugis did so successfully is arguably proof of this. According to Diane, she then saw a man on the road flagging her and stopped thinking he needed help. I think u need to read the facts. I would say so. Two jurors had voted that Diane was not guilty of attempted murder or first-degree assault, but endedup voting to convict her of murder. I encourage you to read all the facts before being so sure that she was guilty or that she acted alone. He separated from his wife and was going to follow Diane who, by now, had decided to move and work in Oregon to be closer to her parents. Mr. Downs must have had a bad feeling about Jagger because before trial, he tried to retain defense attorney Melvin Belli who had the reputation of fighting for his clients and to win all his cases. It was half baked escape plans that were more in her head than anything and that the media enjoyed blowing out of proportions. The tape is real and probably not admissible, but it seems to indicate that her testimony was coerced: Why is it not admissible? Many individuals associated with the the child welfare system, for one reason or another, choose to adopt children. Nobody ignored Dianes demeanor. She was not in the car when her children were shot. This site is provided as a service of SCI Shared Resources, LLC. The person who shot the kids was leaning inside the car because they were shot at close range. The car was splattered with blood, but Diane had none on her. A. Also, I agree he does look a little like the actor who played Fred Hugi but I think it might be a coincidence. What man has ever publicly revered a former secret mistress? Of course I saw movie first, then read the bookI wanted more, sadly early Internet days, there wasnt much out there, as far as info or video, picturesnothing really. I like to believe the best about people too but there are certain things that absolutely cant be ignored. Late Tom Billings had been the first who openly questioned Diane Downs guilt. I cannot be more transparent than that and integrity was one of the missing pieces of the entire case. Detective Welch reminded Diane of the assault her sister witnessed in February 1983, in which steve Downs broke Dianes tailbone (Appendix 74, page 1025). Even prosecutor Fred Hugi was seen walking the grounds to try to find the weapon. She never hurt anyone in the process of escaping. This reminds me of what a jail counselor named Rachel Roth said at the trial of Debra Milke Its my opinion that this young woman has been judged in a way that signifies something to do with how we view women in our society. What about the terror of being interrogated by strangers and separated from her family? The rest of the family? The next day, on June 16, 1983, CSD terminated Dianes visitations with her children altogether. Page 10 of Case History. please express them and I will print them. It surely was not due process. Help tell the story of your loved ones unique life. I will talk to Dianes brother. Right after her first surgery, The Detectives were adamant that they HAD to have Diane right then to recreate the incident- unless of course, you have something to hide. My opposition to movies about true crime stories is unshakable. I do not have to put any statement advising people that I am about to present the neglected aspects of the trial. Gun shot residue is not always present. The jurors had doubts. This blogger believes in the presumption of innocence and in the possibility of redemption. They are the ones who supposedly (according to Diane) screwed her up so badly. Everyone deserves peace. The forensic evidence alone is absolutely weak. A reader told me that I should have a website with all the comments. I changed the sites email recently to thetroublewithjustice@hotmail.com The family moved to Mesa, Arizona, and Diane and Steve worked at the same mobile-home manufacturer. Plus, you do not let a newly appointed judge to criminal cases, preside over a high profile murder case when he has no experience whatsoever and has already prejudged the defendant dangerous to her children. They removed them and proceeded to interrogate the poor girl until she gave them what they needed. Im all for justice, reviewing facts and overturning corrupt decisions. Even more now with hindsight because of the gun and the fact that her daughter kind of recanted by demonstrating that if pushed, she will say what is expected of her. Susan, I dont know if there ever was a lawsuit against Ann Rule from the Fredericksons family. Id have more influence arguing for better relationships with Mexico at a Donald Trump rally in Mexico. So I start with that bit of history in mind. I try to bring out the details that were ignored because Down was so unpopular: this blog is clearly one sided. There was no question in Dianes mind that Knick would take another mistress if she married him, and that hed move on again. They should have had ongoing contact and been placed with family as soon as they were out of the hospital and they never should have been interviewed without their own attorney (Guardian ad Litem) present. Tis why at 10 years old I was hearing about this case in Ohio, and family members talked about it around me.it hit with great force that way. 1) Gunshot residue/blood splatter. In fact, Diane had consulted a psychologist after the tragedy and after months of consultation, she was never diagnosed as a sociopath. Evidence continued to pile up against Diane Downs. As her brother mentioned, it would not be that farfetched for his sister to stop for someone considering that she was a person who lacked impulse control and the era. Then ask yourself if thats how you want your son to grow up. Knickerbocker reported to the police that Downs had stalked him and seemed . In 2008, a psych evaluation by L. Williams, Ph.D., Chief of Mental Health at Valley State Prison for Women, explained Dianes lack of emotions and its relationship to her case. Maybe because of her notoriety and the victims were children. Robert Walter Knickerbocker Robert was born April 19, 1957, the son of Robert and Beulah Knickerbocker of Upper Lisle Road, Whitney Point. They rarely get a break. Rule defended her right to earn a living and to tell her story. I saw footage of Diane herself laughing during the re-enactment of the crime. Thank you for presenting a side of the story & case apart from the usual narrative. She is supposed to be locked up for murder, etc. Downs herself had been shot in the left forearm. I agree about pregnancy and childbirth affecting women differently, and even having different effects for the same woman with different pregnancies. It does seem time has done worse to her. Women who were somewhat normal begore, get pregnant, have the baby, then drown it a toilet, kill or beat the the baby in the first year..shaking or other means..its less often then notbut better believe these type of cases are reported constantly now on social media. (that one is more of a question). As a rule, any child under the age of ten prompts counsel to question the competence of any testimony that child might give. Most importantly why would anybody shoot 3 children potentially fatally and leave the adult with a wound in her arm. Downs was denied parole in 2008 and 2010. Yes Gigi, the same judge who had removed the children was also presiding over her trial. It had nothing to do with the evidence of the case and represents useless labeling anyway. Lets also remember that this is the US of A and we dont lock people up for being narcissistic, antisocial histrionic individuals. Downs called Robert Knickerbocker, a married man and a former coworker in Arizona with who she had been having an affair. Danny downs did indeed say a man shot him he also blamed a cartoon character. They examined her clothes also. In 1992 I became involved in this work following my interest and research into a notorious murder trial that was held in Oregon many years ago. WTF? CANDLE HAS BEEN LIT CANDLES HAVE BEEN LIT, We are reviewing your submission. Hardly circumstantial or coincidental what are the chances that a bushy haired stranger, masked men, or someone that knew her (take your pick from Dianes ever shifting account) would have the exact same bullets matching to bullets from a gun owned by Diane ? Whenever your shoot a gun that many times and that close to the victims, theres going to be blood and powder residues. To offer your sympathy during this difficult time, you can now have memorial trees planted in a National Forest in memory of your loved one. I couldnt get my hands on the book nor find anything in librariesso basically it was many years later I dove into knowing more about this case, that kinda haunted me. So if we started judging people harshly for their flaws, it would never end. Gunpowder is one of the toughest stains around, when it comes to removing it from clothes. The problem was, Diane has a long-documented history of adversely reacting to tranquilizing drugs. He gave temporary custody to Dr. Wilhite. This is what Mrs Downs had to say about the situation. Her power to manipulate is why she is where she is to begin with. She said She did it. Did she act like a average person? I have watched her parole hearing. In 1991, David Brewer, a juror who deliberated Dianes fate in her 1984 trial, came forward to say he and another juror had decided to acquit Downs by the close of the States presentation. but later you claim Diane was inside the car and shot the kids in the car and that that BECAUSE she was inside the car she should have had blood splatter on herso WHICH IS IT, I dont know which it is Libby. Diane Downs and Alice Crummins were considered sluts and cold-blooded women and were judged on their unusual character. I do have to take issue with this article about Diane Downs. It gave Anne Rule carte blanche to legally use these labels in her book and it stuck. No, Im not that gullible, Okay, I just read that she faked throwing her keys. Im not arguing the facts of the trial, and Im not about to. I say these things if I were on the jury. There were good reasons to look at this mother, but the detective admitted on the stand that they stopped looking at anyone else after two weeks and the stranger on the road became a joke. The cops admitted that they never investigated the tips about a bushy haired stranger. Are we to believe that Proctors second gun was stolen with the bill and ID from the first gun that remained listed at the gun store? Her father also insisted shetry to help catch the shooter. You mention her youngest daughter, and how Ann made sure she only heard negative information about Diane.. One should also wonder why their biological father who was so eager to bash his ex on the stand was not given custody, and did not stay in contact with his two remaining children: relevance? The proverbial expression It takes two to tango applies here. Being interested in a subject without bringing emotions to the table is always the most important step. Except after the idea was subsequently planted in his head only to be alluded to in court, in spite of an agreement to never mention the subject. Her mom is still alive and would love to have contact but respect that they wont. I agree. Knickerbocker, Robert C.Robert C. Knickerbocker, age 82 of Tucson, AZ, passed away on May 15, 2015 in Tucson. To this day, there is not enough evidence to prove her guilt or innocence. That is pure bullshit. View their profile including current address, phone number 480-307-XXXX, background check reports, and property record on Whitepages, the most trusted online directory. Basically, I dont believe the site owner has produced enough proof of anything. Great question. Problem with that is Diane has said during an interview with detectives that the sketch looks nothing like what she described. In 1991, David Brewer, a juror who deliberated Dianes fate in her 1984 trial, came forward to say he and another juror had decided to acquit Downs by the close of the States presentation. Not speculative? It was such a high profile case and she was found guilty by the media and the court so people are afraid to touch this one. So glad you wrote and provided this information. Nobody near to help. I would like to see her released because I do not believe in life without parole for any inmate with no priors who had a good conduct while incarcerated. I am not biased. And if she did it, she has served her time without displaying any violent tendencies whatsoever. Click to read The Case of Liysa Northon Who Said True Crime Does not Pay? It would never happen todaynever. She never mentioned that before, and she doesnt mention the FBI agents name. Will Cheryl ever be let out of her grave? A. I was still living in the house, yes, sir. No conflict of interest there? See more Show your support Send Flowers Send flowers or a gift to a service or family's home. The kind of TV series that they produce on high profile crimes will make sure to turn public opinion. Those cases shouldnt have been in the same court let alone presided over by the same judge. YouTube is a video-sharing website where users can upload and watch videos, subscribe to user channels and leave comments. Today, Diane Downs is 63 years old and sits in a California prison. Diane Downs is no exception. 2. Even if they say that she did not get involved in rehabilitation programs, she did participate, but obviously did not admit to killing her daughter and injuring the others. Let others know about your loved one's death. For all you readers of this blogger, I lived through the Diane Downs case. Mr. Jagger read the report and said, you were right. Mr. Instead of shooting the little kids, why didnt the carjacker/killer (CK) simply shoot DD dead and take her car? I was being sarcastic. The courts were divided in the 80s, family court, traffic court, criminal court, juvenile court I dont believe they ran out of judges to preside over them all. According to Oregon law, this would have to be supported by a psychiatrists report or a Wardens letter and Diane provided both. And if you claim your innocence, it obviously creates a vicious circle of not showing contrition. But there was a lot left unsaid about this relationship. Current Address: ZANZ N La Cholla Blvd, Tucson, AZ. Also, aside from her original mental state, which may or may not excuse her aloofness (doesnt prove shes a killer by the way! Wouldn't I have made sure they were dead and then cried crocodile tears? They said so and were told to go back to deliberate. Related to: Dana Knickerbocker. (LOL!! a clinical lab to Dianes not being herself the day the Detectives pressured Diane to accompany them, the fact is Diane was clearly suffering the residual effects of that chemical poison in her system. So either way, it would not be so far fetched that someone said he was the shooter.A little investigation would not hurt. AKA: Robert Knickerboc, Ruk K Knickerbocker, Robt Knickerbocker +12 more. Everything I outlined should be public knowledge. Surprisingly, Fred Hugi actually looks quite different. I think that you are right about certain things not being ignored. What was the justification? It isnt there all the time. Its more understandable now, after all this time but it has done her so much harm, then and now They had high hopes for Dianes future and this bad boy was not part of it. It did not matter that they had no evidence; they did not like her attitude and she was going to pay for it: opinion, not fact This really makes me angry, that prosecuter and judge should be sued along with the writter. DA Pat Horton declared early in the game to the local paper that the search for the bearded stranger was not very high on their priority list.. That hurt our family deeply. It was pretty apparent during the course of this saga that the media and the state were willing to give a free pass to anyone willing to badmouth Diane. They had him micromanaged, and with the testimony of little Christie they were in business: argumentative She has come a long way. Just goes to show how difficult it is sometimes to find the truth. I never read the Ann Rule book, but saw Small Sacrifices as a kid and have had an interest in this case ever since. Something that would never stand in court now. Is there any update? I dont know how familiar she was with the area, but I do not think that it matters anyway. This case certainly had its share of circumstantial evidence. I feel sorry for Diane too. I was always really bothered by that. I believe DDs case needs to be re looked at and all evidence reviewed. The grandparents were babysitting the children often and had several children who were well adjusted. The ghastly crimes were not perpetrated by a nameless, faceless stranger as she told police, but seemingly by Diane Downs herself. Diane was diagnosed as being bipolar and subsequently diagnosed by a psychiatrist before sentencing. 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Deviant sociopath that Mr. wasnt it speculative on their part on so fallacies. Also presiding over her trial was speculative and based on facts and solid direct or circumstantial evidence stop! Relieved when she moved to Oregon remember that this is what Mrs had. Before being so sure that she told Diane to stop writing her say a man him! Children sustained to begin with surprisingly, he shot her kids and struggled with her children altogether also... Of a fuss about her arm than about the situation reader told me that i should have a website all...
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